One of my early suggestions to those at Expert Connect is that I receive a free annual World Deluxe Ancestry.com subscription. Both Ancestry.com and their EC division have stated "They don't currently offer that, but have forwarded it to their staff blah blah..."
I tried to explain to the folks at Ancestry.com and EC that, to make an analogy, when a farmer hires farm hands, he does not make them pay for their spades and shovels, let alone their drinking water. Furthermore, I estimate to make Ancestry.com about $7,000 over their current annual subscription price! What is a mere $249???
They seriously need to get their stuff together!
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I only pay 129 a year for World. A good deal that has carried over. But not it is public we will see.
ReplyDeleteIf you plan on making $47,000 per year as you state, just from Ancestry, how would you like to double that? We need to get reliable providers not to undercut each other. The biggest problem I have with ancestry is they won't allow a bid of over $5,000 which I really think is restraint of trade. A full family project should be $5,000 at least. Would any provider really spend only 100 hours on a full family tree? I bet no Provider has spent only 100 hours on their own tree! Point! If we all state the same price and then state our objectives and a small synopsis of what we will do, our revenue would increase and we would still have the same amount of projects. I really think only about 10% of providers are providing 90% of the service. But we need to work together.
ReplyDeleteI've been an Ancestry subsciber since 1997, staring with the monthly subscriber, and now I'm at a World subscription for over $200, I think it is.
ReplyDeleteYour idea of free subs for the Experts is wonderful. Considering Ancestry has stated on their website that they've had over $400,000 in EC projects available to bid (this was in October) since they started it, how much could potentially go into their coffers?
Yeah, I've gotten the old "we'll forward it to our people"...
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteFirst of all I believe you're right that it seems to be maybe 10% of us doing 90% of the work. It takes a little digging, but you can get a good idea of how many of us are active and how many projects everyone is participating in.
How can we possibly stop some researchers from low balling their bids? You are suggesting that we all bid the same price in an open forum instead of a silent bid like we are? I can't imagine everyone agreeing to charge the same price. Maybe I didn't understand your solution. Can you explain?
Thanks,
Todd
Jeff - how'd you get that deal - and how is it recurring? I spoke with like 4 different supervisors (directly with EC and Ancestry.com billing) to no avail.
ReplyDeleteThe undercutting of bids is unfortunately a part of the process of successfully obtaining SOME projects. I won't go into the specifics of my methodology, but it seems the majority of clients prefer lower bids to experience. HOWEVER, I think that as experience increases (as displayed on profile), they're willing to pay more. Part of this is continually fine-tuning your bid proposal.
My first reaction when I realized I was getting way underbid was anger. How can someone bid something ridiculous like $125 on a $750 project? Due to the current bidding system, you simply have to adapt if the staff refuses to do anything.
What if EC were to ask the clients a one or two question survey as they are closing their project? This would be to find out why the client chose that particular provider.
ReplyDeleteThe survey could say...
What made your decision to select this particular provider?
A. The final cost.
B. The experience level of the provider.
C. The time frame.
D. All the above
I myself would love to know the reason for most clients making their decisions. EC could post the results of all completed projects together for us.
Hi Josh
ReplyDeleteI think I know where you are with the bidding, but to undercut a bid you would have to know what the other bids are. That is why the bidding process EC have in place is blind. Do you really know that the bid of $125 took a $750 project? Who said it was a $750 project?
I would also take a stab at the results of Todd's suggested exit poll 'all of the above'.
Apart from our belief in an open and fair bidding process we have the same misgivings about the basic EC offerings. Projects that stay open too long, the abusive moderating of the 'official' EC blogs, the delays in paying and the lack any redution in the Ancestry membership feesfor an expert.
Maybe that last one could be like the airlines, points system. Points awarded for the amount of revenue an expert generates in a given year and that could give a discount against the membership fee.
C&T
TCatEC:
ReplyDeleteBy undercut, I meant the project was for a range of like 750-1500 (or similar)...this was posted in the description. Upon awarding the project to another provider, I looked at the "Archived Projects" and it showed the project was awarded for $125.00.
Hey Josh
ReplyDeleteOur day hasn't been wasted :) - we learned something. We've never looked at that side of the projects and now we see what you're talking about. $125 doesn't seem much at all, did you bid on the project? Was it a $750 bid?
TC
This section of "lost" projects is an important lesson in client behavior toward bidding schemes. Yes, I'd bid around $750 I believe. I've seen plenty of other very low bids on projects too.
ReplyDeleteOK, now we may be as angry as you are. We bid on a project estimated at $300 - the winning bid was $20 - that isn't even an hours work. OK, but what can you do about it.
ReplyDeleteWhile we're here - how can a bid be placed when there is absolutely no information in the project outline. No names, dates or locations - but it is a 'high' dollar project?
TC
Ahh, the first stage :) Eventually you'll get to acceptance...
ReplyDeleteIn reference to the first section part of your post, what "some" people may do because of this low-bidding scheme is to low bid every project and then shortly after the "completion" of the project, propose a continuation project. This would assist in initially obtaining a project. Bad way to do business.
Many people are crossing their fingers when bidding on projects. The problem is Experts don't know what they are actually getting into until it is too late. I had one expert contact me as she had just started and was overwhelmed because 3 of her projects she could not find any information for.
These people will learn by receiving low review scores, complaints against them by EC staff etc.
I never looked at the lost projects close enough to realize the winning bid was posted right on it.
ReplyDeleteI bid around $1000 on a fairly large, extensive project that was lost to a bid of $250. We no longer need my exit poll. I am realizing why some clients are choosing one provider over another.
Well, I'm going to have the same attitude, that I am thankful for the ones I get. However, after receiving the bid of $250, I'm afraid that client probably looked at my bid and thought I was trying to take advantage of them because mine was so much higher.
TC, those projects with the large budgets and no information are tempting when you've completed your current projects and you're afraid you may not get another one lined up.
As it was stated before, it's nearly impossible to get the clients to respond with more clarifying information if you ask them on the message board.
Personally, I just remain steadfast in my rule to always perform preliminary research. It definitely pays off. It sounds like you do too. I don't know how those providers make it when they get in a jam.
On average, and based on the level of expertise we have in a specific area, we may spend about an hour just preparatory research - before preparing a bid. I suppose business ethics don't apply to some people.
ReplyDeleteNeed to get back to research:)
Todd: What I've done is continue to bid at the higher rates but just incorporate something smoothly into your bid like "Experience vs. Low Bid"...kind of "You get what you pay for".
ReplyDeleteTodd/TC: I never even bid on a project without preliminary information. I always know I'm going to deliver on a project before I start it. It does sap A LOT of time but it generates a higher rating + happy & repeat clients + less stressful research.
I agree about doing prelims on potential projects before bidding-- usually spend about 30-60 minutes just on the info posted in the project page (if there's enough to attempt research with that is!).
ReplyDeleteAs far as high bids, I've been hesitant as well-- didn't want to come across to the client as "money hungry", which of course, it really isn't. We all know how much effort we devote to research, and some of the potential clients may think it's as easy as going to Walmart for socks and Pepsi.